Thursday, August 03, 2006

Elephants vs. Donkeys

Disclaimer:
I am not a supporter of the George W. Bush presidency. I did not vote for the man. I’m also not a supporter of the war in Iraq, which was not justly waged.


Democrats like to assure me that they are indeed quite different than Republicans. They do this by pointing out all of the terrible things that the current administration does and letting me know, “This would never happen if Gore/Kerry were in office!”

It is my belief, however, that Democrats and Republicans are quite similar in that they are both decidedly pro-government. And while both parties claim to believe in keeping Government’s power in check neither has much of a track record of doing so.

For the past year we’ve heard the Left heralding the horrible methods used by the Bush administration in detaining enemy combatants in Guantanamo. They’ve told us that the Bush administration has over stepped it’s power in the unlawful detainment of these prisoners without the right to due process. And while President Bush has defended these actions as being legal due to the fact that the detainees were not American citizens, Democrats have been quick to point out that human rights are inalienable to all men, American’s or not.

One would think that their valiant defense of human rights was based on their own beliefs and not on their political allegiance, and for many of the rank-and-file I’m sure this is the case. However, it’s also maybe assumed that the unspoken assertion is that a Democrat would not dare to commit such a grievous act of human rights abuse and that if Gore/Kerry were in office things would most certainly be different!

There is one man though, who seems to believe different. Brandt Goldstein is a lawyer and the author of Storming the Court, a non-fiction examination of a 1992 court ruling that is eerily similar to our present situation. Late last year Goldstein wrote an article showing the parallels between past and present. You can read it here. An excerpt:

A smidgen of history: Our first Guantanamo detention camp was established in the late stages of the George H.W. Bush presidency. The detainees there weren't terror suspects, but 300 innocent Haitian refugees seeking safe haven from the military regime that ousted Haiti's democratically elected leader, Jean-Bertrand Aristide, in September 1991. These refugees—brought to Guantanamo after the U.S. Coast Guard intercepted their vessels on the high seas between Haiti and Cuba—faced a terrible predicament. In interviews with U.S. immigration officials, they'd all proved a legitimate fear of political persecution were they to be returned to Haiti. Under U.S. policy, they should have been promptly flown to the American mainland (as were a number of other Haitians). But then this small group of men, women, and children also tested positive for HIV. Fear of AIDS was still extreme at that time, and the Bush administration refused to let these hapless refugees into the country. So, instead they were detained in a remote corner of Guantanamo with no prospect of release.


As we all remember Clinton took office shortly after, but he also refused to release the detainees. The case was finally brought before a judge by a group of law students.

The Clinton White House justified this atrocious conduct in terms that sound strikingly familiar today. Justice Department attorneys maintained that foreigners held by the United States at Guantanamo Bay have absolutely no legal rights, whether under the Constitution, federal statutes, or international law. According to this logic, the Clinton White House was free to treat the detainees however it pleased. (There was some plagiarism here. The Clinton folks took this argument from the Bush administration lawyers who'd first defended the camp.)


Now I am a fan of perspective and I understand the methods currently being used by the President in Guantanamo are not on the same level as what Clinton used and defended. However, using the principles of perspective we can also say that Clinton was not facing the same choices as Bush. Therefore we can look at the decision Clinton was faced with, whether or not to allow unwanted refugees in the United States. In addition, we can look at the reason he detained the refugees: Fear. Which is the same rational Bush used to defend his own unlawful detainment of prisoners.

And we can ask ourselves this; if a democrat were in office (presumably Gore, Clinton’s own VP) would things have played out differently in Guantanamo?

History answers a resounding, “No.”

7 comments:

Crystal Starr said...

I didn't read your post because it made me sleepy.

This is my thought though.

Libertarians will most likely never even come close to presidency because of one thing. They are not Pro-life. I have read and heard over and over again that many Christians would vote Libertarian if they were pro-life. Republicans are known for being pro-life and I think that most who do vote Republican do so solely because of this. I am one of those people.

Libertarians NEED to realize that babies are NOT cells or fetus they are HUMAN BEINGS that should have civil rights. Isn’t that what Libertarians are all about protecting civil rights??

UGH!!! I don't want to turn this into a pro-life vs. pro-choice comment box so I hope that doesn’t happen. It's just frustrating to me that I really feel like I will have no other choice than to vote Republican because of this.

Swinging Sammy said...

I must agree that each president and cabinet has abused their power. I truly believe that power corrupts otherwise "good" people. I can't believe that libertarians would be any different.

CyberKitten said...

It always amuses me when Republicans are seen as 'pro-life' when they seem to spend quite a lot of time, money and energy killing as many people as possible.

Can a party be 'pro-life' at the same time as being pro-death penalty & so very pro-war?

Oh, and sorry to disagree with you - but a bunch of cells is not a human being. It is (at best) a potential human being.

Scott said...

meh abortion

We're not discussing it.

End of story.


No really, END OF STORY.







Thanks for stopping by cyberkitten. I appreciate the comment. It's in-line with what many on the Christian Left believe. Pro-Life on everything, which makes them anti-war (in many cases pacifism), anti-abortion, anti-death penalty, and anti-euthanasia.

It's not the line of logic I personally hold to, but I understand it.

I do hope you return in the very near future.



Sam, the difference with the Libertarian party is that that they seek to limit the Government's power all together. So any abuse/corruption would be limited as well. I agree with you that power corrupts though.

Crystal Starr said...

Sorry Scott I didn't want to take away from your post with the pro-life stuff. I just wanted to explain why I feel the need to vote republican is all. =)

I do understand what you are saying cyberkitten it's all pretty confusing isn't it? For me it’s just not that black and white. I am also one of those people that are pro-life (innocent life) and I think I support the death penalty (I say “think” because regrettably it’s not something I have given a lot of thought to). I won't debate about it here though because we won't agree and we already know that. Plus I don't want to take away from Scott's post again. But I do want you to know that I do respect you and your opinions.

You don't have to apologize for disagreeing with me at all!! =)

CyberKitten said...

OK. Getting back to the original post - at least sort of...

The thing about politicians (and I mean of all flavours) is that they lie for a living. Lying to the electorate is what they do. They will lie to get into power and will lie to stay there. I don't care if they are from the Left or the Right. They all lie.

Politics is the business of expediency. No matter what their parties stand point or their personal beliefs you can never trust a politician to have your best interests at heart.

So would the world be any different if the Democrats had won the last election (or the one before that)? Hard to tell... but I'm sure they'd have pretty good excuses for going back on all their promises if they felt the need to do so.

Shawn said...

Cool post. It's really pretty amazing how short the collective memory of our country is.

Personally, I get a bit torqued when people start spouting the 'well, if Gore' or 'well if Kerry' arguments. It's a bit like having the person in the passenger seat tell you that if so and so had of been driving we wouldn't have gotten lost. That's great and all, but wouldn't it be more productive to pull the map out of the glove box and help get us found?